Michael Brown

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Joe Barhoum 

I know I say this often, but I’m telling you this is one of the best podcasts I’ve ever done. 

Joe Barhoum 

Michael Brown is an incredible salesperson, a good human being. 

Joe Barhoum 

Michael has a lot of experience in sales, but just like me, his initial karere wasn’t sales and his experience is very well rounded. 

Joe Barhoum 

He dips and toes and a lot of different things. 

Joe Barhoum 

As he says, this is a great great episode. 

Joe Barhoum 

Of the ground and gravy podcast. 

Joe Barhoum 

Thank you. 

Joe Barhoum 

Gonna love it and don’t forget you can pick up a copy of my book. 

Joe Barhoum 

The great sellers playbook on Amazon by purchasing the book you get a lot of benefit. 

Joe Barhoum 

You gotta learn some of the tricks of the trade and selling they can help you be an honest and career long sales professional to great network. 

Joe Barhoum 

And then it also helps keep the podcast going. 

Joe Barhoum 

So if you don’t mind picking up the book, I’d appreciate it if you already have thank you and tell a friend. 

Joe Barhoum 

And for now, enjoy Michael Brown. 

Joe Barhoum 

Alright Michael, dude, thank you for doing this. 

Joe Barhoum 

’cause I’ve known you now two years. 

Joe Barhoum 

I think we met through mutual friend and you were at one of my lectures and I just have such a glow. 

Joe Barhoum 

About you. 

Joe Barhoum 

You know personally as well as professionally or the kind of person that I would trust. 

Joe Barhoum 

The kind of person who want to buy from. 

Joe Barhoum 

And you know this is a podcast normally about sales and entrepreneurship and you are both right. 

Joe Barhoum 

You’re a sales professional. 

Joe Barhoum 

You’re an entrepreneur. 

Joe Barhoum 

You’re a B. 

Joe Barhoum 

Businessman, I’m really glad that I finally get to bring Michael Brown to my audience here. 

Michael Brown 

And gravy well, thanks so much. 

Michael Brown 

Super flattering. 

Michael Brown 

That’s what makes me glow I guess, but I’m I’m really happy to be here and just to talk a little bit with you. 

Michael Brown 

And we’ve had a really great relationship over the past two years and it definitely shared experiences back and forth, so you know just as much as you say that to me, I want to say the same to you, and I’ve learned that from you the first time I met you was at your sales course. 

Please. 

Michael Brown 

Thanks. 

Michael Brown 

I took a lot of that back to my organization that is working with then, so it’s been really impact. 

Joe Barhoum 

Apple. 

Joe Barhoum 

Thank you, I appreciate that. 

Joe Barhoum 

What I’d like to do is of course just talk to you, get to know you, build more personally, let the audience get to know you, and some of the shared experiences that you mentioned. 

Joe Barhoum 

I think it might be fun to drill into because you know we both have. 

Joe Barhoum 

Now if I jump into this quite yet, I’m gonna have to now ’cause I kind of. 

Joe Barhoum 

Prime the pump. 

Joe Barhoum 

So one of the challenges I deal with as an independent consultant is that organizations will hire me. 

Joe Barhoum 

They’ll say like we’re having trouble with sales, and that’s where I come in. 

Joe Barhoum 

Well, sometimes the trouble with sales is the way the sales people have been groomed to sell, not necessarily by their employer. 

Joe Barhoum 

My client, but just over the years. 

Joe Barhoum 

And then sometimes in addition to that or independently, the problem is how they go to market sometimes or in addition, it’s the technology, right? 

Joe Barhoum 

So it’s people technology, it’s market fit and positioning, so I’ll have to come in and diagnose all this and then off I go. 

Joe Barhoum 

But the one constant that seems to be there no matter what is the outbound. 

Joe Barhoum 

It’s like the methodology that salespeople employ to get into deals once they get into a deal. 

Joe Barhoum 

I can really train them, but where I’m deficient, where I lean on you often for advice and assistance, is reaching out, finding new opportunities, getting your message out there. 

Joe Barhoum 

So I think that’s something in particular I’d really like to dive into with. 

Michael Brown 

Yeah. 

Michael Brown 

Great. 

Michael Brown 

Cool. 

Michael Brown 

Where do I start? 

Joe Barhoum 

I know man, it’s not how we planned it, but let’s jump in. 

Joe Barhoum 

So why don’t we start with what makes you incredible? 

Joe Barhoum 

Let’s start there OK, so what’s your background professionally and why should people listen to you? 

Michael Brown 

Well, so I started. 

Michael Brown 

I think my my journey into the startup world was with a then small company Audigy Group based out of Vancouver, WA that offered consulting for audiology practice. 

Michael Brown 

It is. 

Michael Brown 

I was very fortunate to get a gig there. 

Michael Brown 

I was definitely not qualified at all, but it kind of, I think, led me to believe in my sales skills because I knew I could sell myself in an interview. 

Michael Brown 

And that’s really where I learned that. 

Michael Brown 

Maybe I’m good with sales and I’m good with relationships and I had zero sales experience so. 

Michael Brown 

I joined that organization back in 2013 and I spent almost eight years with. 

Michael Brown 

And then more recently moved on to another startup sales Leap, a great organization and help scale and grow that business over a shorter tenure there. 

Michael Brown 

And based off of that, I want to be back in the healthcare realm. 

Michael Brown 

It was really where I felt that I excelled and something that I was very passionate about. 

Michael Brown 

And so I took the experience from Prodigy and Healthcare. 

Michael Brown 

And then the sales experience from sales Leap kind of melded those two things together. 

Michael Brown 

And then now I’m working with a company Allor care that is technically been in business for about 11 years. 

Michael Brown 

But we did a full rebrand and we’re kind of doing a relaunch at this. 

Michael Brown 

Point an as you guys know. 

Michael Brown 

I mean, there’s been this whole transition in sales. 

Michael Brown 

Now if you can’t be in clinics anymore, it’s not a possibility with Kovid. 

Michael Brown 

So how do you get in front of a prospekt purely digitally right and not the old school way necessarily of like just picking up a phone list and calling and dialing for dollars and so. 

Michael Brown 

That’s where I came from, and now I’m working on this alekar company. 

Michael Brown 

It’s been a really exciting venture for us. 

Michael Brown 

We’ve only been live for about 5 weeks and we just signed our first client last week. 

Joe Barhoum 

Wow, congratulations. 

Michael Brown 

Thank you. 

Joe Barhoum 

That’s really cool, so it’s the sales cycle supposed to be about 5 weeks, or does it feel like that was an anomaly? 

Michael Brown 

So it’s not we had about. 

Michael Brown 

I would say we had about five weeks of set up in that five weeks. 

Joe Barhoum 

OK. 

Michael Brown 

Apply your CRM, going your slack channel going. 

Michael Brown 

All of those things in the background. 

Michael Brown 

We have been extremely diligent about building something that’s duplicable we don’t want to have to go back and re craft. 

Michael Brown 

Or fix any errors we want to do it right from the start and I have incredible partners who have been advocates for that as well, and so our sales cycle with that first deal was actually 3 days. 

Michael Brown 

Is so we met with him on Monday, closed him on a Wednesday, which was fantastic and this one is a little unique simply because I actually got to go to their office. 

Michael Brown 

I just moved to bend OR and everybody has been so kind here to invite me into their office amidst Covid, which hasn’t actually been a big thing out here in this little tiny town of Bend OR. 

Michael Brown 

Exactly. 

Michael Brown 

Michael Brown 

But so that was a shorter sales cycle than what I expected. 

Joe Barhoum 

Mm-hmm, that’s really cool, and then I should have mentioned that you’re in bed now. 

Joe Barhoum 

Because anyone who’s in the Oregon area, even like probably anywhere in the West here ****** like at Ben’s awesome. 

Michael Brown 

It’s it’s heaven on earth. 

Michael Brown 

Somebody told me to say that I should start telling people I live where you vacation. 

Joe Barhoum 

We usually go once or twice a year to get away, and my best friend lives in sisters, which is 20 minutes from bend. 

Joe Barhoum 

Yeah. 

Joe Barhoum 

Joe Barhoum 

So I usually go see him or he comes up here. 

Joe Barhoum 

Actually going to be out there and we should talk. 

Joe Barhoum 

I’ll be out there in about a month and a half, so should I welcome make some time to grab a coffee? 

Michael Brown 

Or something yeah, yeah I I would prefer the beer but yeah. 

Michael Brown 

Yeah. 

Michael Brown 

And. 

Joe Barhoum 

It’s an option too. 

Joe Barhoum 

It’s an option. 

Joe Barhoum 

Ribs, let’s just go straight to dinner. 

Michael Brown 

This is the yeah there you go. 

Joe Barhoum 

Well, let’s talk a little. 

Joe Barhoum 

Bit about that the shared experiences. 

Joe Barhoum 

So as I mentioned earlier, the go to market can be really hard for salespeople. 

Joe Barhoum 

So traditionally let’s say pre kovid and and what I think Covid did to field or outbound sales people kovid sped up the ultimate demise of. 

Joe Barhoum 

Quote unquote cold calling. 

Joe Barhoum 

So the the methods that sales people had prior to the whole kovid speed up they could. 

Joe Barhoum 

They could make an actual phone call. 

Joe Barhoum 

They could visit a site, drop off some material they could. 

Joe Barhoum 

They could do an email they could do a text. 

Joe Barhoum 

I suppose they could send stuff over if they didn’t want to physically go there like there selling the outside the country. 

Joe Barhoum 

They didn’t have all that much at their disposal, but what’s covid did is it said, OK, well, you can’t go places anymore, so somehow we have to replace that experience. 

Joe Barhoum 

And what I think a lot of organizations did. 

Joe Barhoum 

But because also at this time marketing sort of, you know they became very mature with their marketing, their technology with marketing automation, so constant contact, MailChimp, all these services that just blast emails to people that speed up at the same time that that some sales people are like. 

Joe Barhoum 

Well I should be sending more emails ’cause I can’t go on site and so now. 

Joe Barhoum 

Inboxes are being flooded at a rate they weren’t before, and phone calls well. 

Joe Barhoum 

You can’t reach people at their office necessarily because they’re at home, and so you don’t have that number, and if you did, it might be kind of rude, so sales people and they need to find something new. 

Joe Barhoum 

Something that I learned from you. I guess this goes back to like October, maybe September of 2020, which it wasn’t new to you. Then that was new to me then is video. You see how you started shooting video and send them out to people and being very deliberate and putting research into it, which you know stupid me. I should have thought of that. ’cause that ties back to one of my. 

Joe Barhoum 

Rules that I lecture on often, which is, you know, be prepared. 

Joe Barhoum 

So take the time to give people something before you ask for anything in return so all that preamble to say like how is that going for you and tell us more about how you do it. 

Michael Brown 

Well, I love that you mentioned that ’cause maybe just like video that when I was talking to you about video and it stuck with you, your be prepared stuck with me and I think that’s why I started shooting videos. 

Michael Brown 

I mean it’s it’s one of the catalysts for why I started shooting videos. 

Michael Brown 

I think intrinsically as sales people we know we should go out and do research on our prospects like it’s kind of a no brainer. 

Michael Brown 

But common sense isn’t always common practice, right? 

Michael Brown 

And we often forget or you get caught in the slog or just like I have so much to do today that I’m just going to insert templates end. 

Michael Brown 

And now my job is done right? 

Michael Brown 

But we I think we also know sales people that the time that we get the big wins. 

Michael Brown 

We put time and effort into it and we actually get to know somebody. 

Michael Brown 

One thing I’ve always taught my teams or people want to do business with people, not with businesses, right? 

Michael Brown 

And so you really have to become a human and now you have to become a human. 

Yeah. 

Michael Brown 

So in a really great way to do that is through video and it’s paying attention to details and really doing your research. 

Michael Brown 

Joe, as you’re an advocate for as well. 

Michael Brown 

Well, is not necessarily to relate to them on making up a problem that they may have necessarily. 

Michael Brown 

Yes. 

Michael Brown 

Michael Brown 

You do want to solve a problem, but more so just to get into their inbox and to get their permission to have a conversation. 

Michael Brown 

You have to be human if they if they live in Montana and let’s say, or they live in Jackson Hole, Wyoming for example and their skier. 

Michael Brown 

And you ski Jackson Hole man, you better bet that my reach out is going to be like oh, I ski one time in Jackson Hole. 

Michael Brown 

Have you ever been there like just get that opportunity to open up? 

Uh huh. 

Michael Brown 

It’s no different than meeting somebody while you’re out on the town or at a bar or something and you start up a conversation. 

Michael Brown 

You’re not trying to solve that person’s problem, you’re just trying to get to know them better and find some relatability. So with that video gives you the opportunity to be in their office and be face to face with them. It also gives you a chance to show and flex that. Hey, I’ve really done my research and I’ve got some super responses from the videos that I’ve been shooting. 

Michael Brown 

They take awhile, you know. They take five 6-7 minutes of video rather than a template email that takes 20 seconds to send out or is automated through your marketing process. But however, I think they’re they’re really well worth it. So if you can send 10 or 15 of those a day. 

Michael Brown 

I oftentimes get a response on 50% plus whether it’s positive or negative doesn’t really matter. The best part is that we’re getting responses, and I think that’s more important than what the responses, so we’re using a really great platform, HubSpot. I’m sure you’ve talked about on your podcast before, and then they integrate with Vidyard, an vineyards. Been wonderful if you don’t have HubSpot, I would highly recommend soapbox works, really. 

Michael Brown 

Well as an attachment to your browser. 

Michael Brown 

But yeah, just getting personal on those things and an you know being real I think is another thing that I talk about quite often is make mistakes in your video. 

Michael Brown 

If it’s perfect and polished, it doesn’t look like you actually shot it for that person or that you put too much effort in. 

Michael Brown 

I want to talk to a human an I’m sure you do too, right? 

Joe Barhoum 

Yeah. 

Absolutely. 

Michael Brown 

Absolutely. 

Michael Brown 

Just be casual and nice about it. 

Michael Brown 

If your dog barks in the background. 

Michael Brown 

If your dog up and introduced Cosmo right. 

Yeah. 

Joe Barhoum 

Yeah, that’s real. 

Joe Barhoum 

That’s the world that we’re living in now and that’s when people are like. 

Joe Barhoum 

This is a real guy and I’ll talk to a real guy. 

Joe Barhoum 

At least give him a shot. 

Joe Barhoum 

see I think you’re ahead of the curve on all of this, and I can’t disagree. 

Joe Barhoum 

See. 

Joe Barhoum 

Joe Barhoum 

Thing that you’re saying I have shot some videos since you showed me how to do it and walk me through it. 

Joe Barhoum 

I’ve shot a few videos. 

Joe Barhoum 

I’ve deployed them, but I haven’t done it routinely enough where I can say. 

Joe Barhoum 

It’s working, it’s not working so I can’t really refute anything that you’re saying. 

Joe Barhoum 

But all appeals to me as a 15 year career salesperson. 

Joe Barhoum 

It makes sense and I I’m not trying to Pat myself on the back, but this is my domain like this is where I’m an expert at an when I hear I can call BS. 

Joe Barhoum 

I think pretty easily this is it and I think you’re ahead of the curve and you know one way that sales people win is they are prepared right? 

Joe Barhoum 

But they’re also they’re doing more than their competition are doing. 

Joe Barhoum 

So one of the things that Jeffrey Gitomer wrote about in the in the Red Book of selling is to outwork your competition right to kick yourself in the in the behind right. 

Joe Barhoum 

He uses a. 

Joe Barhoum 

Different word so. 

Joe Barhoum 

You know, but it’s it’s true. 

Joe Barhoum 

It was true. 

Joe Barhoum 

Then 20 years ago or maybe longer. 

Joe Barhoum 

And it’s true today as well. 

Joe Barhoum 

I think it will always be true. 

Joe Barhoum 

It’s if you can have. 

Joe Barhoum 

A video and no one else is sending videos. 

Joe Barhoum 

You know you’re probably going to rise to the top and to your point. 

Joe Barhoum 

You don’t want to be a psychic. 

Joe Barhoum 

You don’t know what their problems are, but you know you might be able to find some negative information on their website or in a press release that you could then say look. 

Joe Barhoum 

This may be a problem for you. 

Joe Barhoum 

It may not. 

Joe Barhoum 

It may mean that you’re doing this instead of doing that. 

Joe Barhoum 

Here are the problems that we solve. 

Joe Barhoum 

Here’s this little demo or whatever it is. 

Joe Barhoum 

Tell me what you think I, I really think you had the curve man. 

Michael Brown 

Well, thank you, I appreciate it man, and this is definitely like your wheelhouse. 

Michael Brown 

And funny enough I am not born bred or anything in sales. 

Michael Brown 

I just kind of learned along the way and back at Audigy and our mutual connection analogy. 

Michael Brown 

I kinda just got pushed into sales. 

Michael Brown 

And you know you try things and you should be trying things all the time. 

Michael Brown 

And I really don’t think there’s. 

Michael Brown 

I don’t think there’s any finite direction that you point your compass in sales. 

Michael Brown 

It changes so much and you’ll go out on LinkedIn as Joe and I do quite a bit. 

Michael Brown 

And there’s all these guys out there that are telling you that this is wrong and this is right. And this is how I book 100 meetings a day. And This is why you’re looking nothing. And and though I like to look at that advice and kind of take some of the Nuggets that I can. 

Michael Brown 

I am not a fan of that advice simply because all of that could come crashing down the next week. 

Michael Brown 

Or it could be better. 

Michael Brown 

LinkedIn happens to be the hot spot right now for B to be. 

Michael Brown 

Who knows, maybe next week it’s Tik T.O.K, 

Michael Brown 

right? 

Michael Brown 

So it’s you know you really gotta stay on the edge all the time. And I also believe that Devil’s in the details. I mean, as you know, there’s there’s been. I mean, we. We talked about that for history, but just the little tiny things that you can be doing to set yourself apart like having I just did this this morning. I didn’t have a photo in my email signature. 

Michael Brown 

It’s just one more little piece that makes me a human right. 

Michael Brown 

Like oh, this guy has a face. 

Michael Brown 

Other than that, I’m just text. 

Michael Brown 

And so little things like that I think are the things that people are maybe like that’s not important. 

Michael Brown 

I won’t spend my time on those, so I think it’s really important to just sit back and take a look at your overall process and say what are the tiny little things that I can do that might just inch me ahead of my competition. 

Michael Brown 

’cause we’re all sending the same exact email. 

Michael Brown 

Realistically, I want to solve your problem. 

Michael Brown 

I want to sell you something. 

Michael Brown 

Right? 

Joe Barhoum 

That is awesome. 

Joe Barhoum 

That is so spot on and I think we’re back to go. 

Joe Barhoum 

A little philosophical here which I love to do. 

Joe Barhoum 

So to me sales isn’t just a job, right? 

Joe Barhoum 

It’s it’s a lifestyle. 

Joe Barhoum 

It’s more than just a career like it’s a lifestyle and. 

Joe Barhoum 

I feel like I hit my career maturity a couple years ago when I decided to go independent and put my lectures in my curriculum and put my point of view to practice. 

Joe Barhoum 

I used to live and breathe often the things that I would lecture about, like I really do believe in being honest and prepared and inquisitive, but I don’t necessarily. 

Joe Barhoum 

I never had. 

Joe Barhoum 

I always had a parachute, but I always had an employer. 

Joe Barhoum 

So when I went out on my on my own like I started doing all this soul searching and started finding that I had this. 

Joe Barhoum 

Tremendous relationship to my my dad. My dad has been he came to America and 66 and he almost immediately dropped all of his plans and started working for his uncle’s business to make money to pay for all the expenses for his family. And it was, you know, it wasn’t expected. It was like sudden. 

Joe Barhoum 

And not that I did anything nearly that brave or dramatic, but you know, I I started realizing that what gave him the ability to succeed in that environment was in me. 

Joe Barhoum 

So even though it’s not as you can’t compare the two situations you know, I still started noticing as I was trying to build this business. 

Joe Barhoum 

That Oh my gosh, this is I’m learning. 

Joe Barhoum 

I’m doing what my dad had done and I’m I’m kind of acting like him. 

Joe Barhoum 

So when I was a kid I would go to his business and I would watch him as a retail business and I would watch him interact with people. 

Joe Barhoum 

It was always so interesting to me, but I never really. 

Joe Barhoum 

It was all stuff that I paid attention to, but I never. 

Joe Barhoum 

Thought about and then I started thinking about it and we talked. 

Joe Barhoum 

Actually you met my dad at that lecture. 

Joe Barhoum 

He was there and anyway so so you know some of these stories. 

Joe Barhoum 

But effectively I started realizing like I was born to sell and I had no idea Mike backgrounds, computer science. 

Joe Barhoum 

I wanted to make video games. 

Joe Barhoum 

My first job was a tech job. 

Joe Barhoum 

I fought to get my first sales job. 

Joe Barhoum 

And I didn’t fight for it because I wanted to have this amazing like career in sales. 

Joe Barhoum 

I just want to make more money because I want to have my own house and get married and all these things so you know, I had this goal and I aim for it and I went after it which is sales. 

Joe Barhoum 

And so now is a more mature person. 

Joe Barhoum 

You know almost 40. 

Joe Barhoum 

I’m starting to think about. 

Joe Barhoum 

A lot more about how can sales be this lifestyle an when you when you see those posts, here’s how it’s relevant. 

Joe Barhoum 

When you see those posts on LinkedIn where people are like, you know, here’s how you do it and you’re doing it wrong. 

Joe Barhoum 

And here’s how you can do it, and be like me. 

Joe Barhoum 

I’m so cool. 

Joe Barhoum 

You know they got the little walking stick and all that stuff with their phone. 

Joe Barhoum 

It’s like OK, slow down, I don’t want to be you. 

Joe Barhoum 

I don’t want to be you. 

Joe Barhoum 

I don’t want to live in breathe sales. 

Joe Barhoum 

I want to live and breathe me and a function of that is to help other people solve their problems. 

Joe Barhoum 

And that’s kind of high level, right? 

Joe Barhoum 

We can get specific if you want. 

Joe Barhoum 

I help businesses find the best way to employ and employ salespeople. 

Joe Barhoum 

Right and you have your own your own mission as well, but we’re both sort of in that mode where you are now living in bend, and you’re glowing and you’re happy and you’re turning this business around, which is so exciting and finding success right? 

Joe Barhoum 

Like I’m working from home and I get to see my kids all the time. 

Joe Barhoum 

And before Covid I was going to soccer games and do whatever you know. 

Joe Barhoum 

My other really good friend. 

Joe Barhoum 

He’s in Missouri. 

Joe Barhoum 

You know he’s he’s building his business up as well. 

Joe Barhoum 

He went on his own a few months ago to consulting practices, not sales. 

Joe Barhoum 

It’s marketing and he told me last night. 

Joe Barhoum 

It’s like, you know, I finally realized the whole reason I did this is so I can go biking whenever I want, like that’s awesome. 

Joe Barhoum 

That’s a great reason, like I think that’s a dumb reason. 

Joe Barhoum 

Like no, that’s a great. 

Joe Barhoum 

Reason like we shouldn’t. 

Joe Barhoum 

We’re not necessarily. 

Joe Barhoum 

I know I’m on a rant here, right? 

Joe Barhoum 

We shouldn’t necessarily. Just like try to fit into somebody else’s box. You know, like you don’t have to just sit in a cubicle and punch in and punch out. It’s OK to be your own person like that’s awesome. The world becomes better when there is, you know this agency and that business and this individual. 

Joe Barhoum 

I’m not necessarily advocating for entrepreneurship purely. 

Joe Barhoum 

I’m just advocating for finding your own path, which I think you’re doing, which I think is. 

Michael Brown 

Awesome, thank you. 

Michael Brown 

Awesome. 

Michael Brown 

Thank you, I appreciate it. 

Michael Brown 

I’m taking notes here on on you. 

Michael Brown 

As well, I’ve got notes from you too, baby. 

Michael Brown 

That’s maybe that’s a good point for us to talk about is, you know, always be learning. 

Michael Brown 

I think everybody in sales knows that, and that’s the. 

Michael Brown 

That’s exactly what I’m talking bout with LinkedIn is like take what you can from those posts. 

Michael Brown 

But always be curious and always be learning. 

Michael Brown 

Actually post on LinkedIn yesterday to be more like your dog and one of the point was dogs are always sniffing around. 

Joe Barhoum 

I saw that at Cosmo. 

Michael Brown 

They’re just curious. 

Michael Brown 

They just want to know what that is and they’re going to lick a rug and a sidewalk. 

Michael Brown 

And they’re just what is that. 

Michael Brown 

And I think the sales that’s what you need. 

Michael Brown 

Do I also love Joe that you brought up? You tell stories, so when you’re talking about your father and him coming over in 66, that’s a story that I believe you talked about during that seminar that I was at that you were hosting an and I know some of the best sales people that I’ve ever met. My life. One of my personal mentors, which I know is also a friend of yours. 

Michael Brown 

An exceptional storyteller. 

Michael Brown 

And I, I think if you are going out there and you’re doing sales and you want to represent your brand, people are going to resonate with that story an as like a pretty big wine guy. Or I consider myself a wine guy. I always relate it back to wine simply because if you think about it, when somebody tells you about a winery they never go, they had the best, like 2011 Cabernet Sauvignon. 

Michael Brown 

Instead, they say they’re one of the first bio dynamic wineries to ever exist, and they’re the only people that have an 11 foot door on the entrance of their property. 

Michael Brown 

They remember, just like the story behind the winery, there’s six generations old. 

Michael Brown 

They don’t necessarily remember the wine, yeah, and so I think. 

Michael Brown 

I think if you can be really good at storytelling, you can build your brand off of that and you should be telling that story through the sales journey. 

Michael Brown 

So however, you’re building out your marketing or your sales. 

Michael Brown 

Email your automated sequences. 

Michael Brown 

That should be a story and take people on this journey and they may not respond to. 

Michael Brown 

The first part of the story or chapter one, maybe? 

Michael Brown 

It didn’t really catch their interest yet, but they’re going to keep reading. 

Michael Brown 

And as they go through it, it might be Chapter 4, seven or 10. 

Michael Brown 

And at some point you’re going to grab their attention like, well, actually, this book is super interesting. 

Michael Brown 

It just got me an I want to finish this book tonight, which is book a meeting with this guy right? 

Michael Brown 

And so I think telling your story is probably overlooked. 

Michael Brown 

A lot of the times and people just instantly go for the kill and say let’s get this meeting on the books. 

Joe Barhoum 

Yeah, but. 

Michael Brown 

My company does really incredible things and you should have it. 

Michael Brown 

Yeah, and that’s true, right? 

Michael Brown 

You do do something that’s incredible and you should have this product and it really would help you. 

Michael Brown 

Out you have to earn that right to be right and you have to earn that right to talk about your product first. 

Michael Brown 

So I love your storytelling ability. 

Michael Brown 

It’s something that I personally am still working on. 

Michael Brown 

I don’t feel I’m a great storyteller, and so I’m constantly jotting down notes on things when I’m just walking through town or I have an experience of like. 

Michael Brown 

How do I tell this story and part of that practice has been on LinkedIn. 

Michael Brown 

How do I push that into three paragraphs that are going to resonate with somebody? 

Michael Brown 

And LinkedIn is a really good opportunity to do that. 

Michael Brown 

’cause you instantly get crowd feedback right? 

Michael Brown 

And so it’s like, was that a good story? 

Michael Brown 

If I got one like in zero comments, no, it was probably hot trash, right? 

Michael Brown 

And I didn’t tell it the right way, and so that’s where you kind of learn and adjust. 

Michael Brown 

And that’s a great opportunity that we have in this generation that maybe people before. 

Michael Brown 

Didn’t have you throw out a marketing story. 

Michael Brown 

Hopefully this works right and so now we get instant feedback, so why would they use that? 

Michael Brown 

Right now. 

Michael Brown 

Joe Barhoum 

That’s interesting, interesting that you say that because now because of the instant feedback, marketing is starting to encroach upon area that was previously reserved for sales and which makes perfect sense. 

Michael Brown 

Yeah. 

Joe Barhoum 

I’m not criticizing that. 

Joe Barhoum 

That’s just the reality of things is now with behavior tracking and intent, tracking and marketing. 

Joe Barhoum 

You can. 

Joe Barhoum 

You can accomplish a lot of what sales people were trying to do. 

Joe Barhoum 

And then that should leave that. 

Joe Barhoum 

What will probably happen is. 

Joe Barhoum 

You know, if there are 100 sales people out there, whether it’s inside outside field, just hundred salespeople, I bet you 7580% are going to fall more into marketing and inside sales, and that remaining 20% are going to rise to the top and become the sales people, right? It’s just the functions and where they step in the sales journey is going to change, which I think would be fun to observe. 

Joe Barhoum 

And yeah, I’m hopeful that sort of like participate in this, but we’ll see. 

Joe Barhoum 

Comment for you. 

Joe Barhoum 

The videos and the storytelling right? 

Joe Barhoum 

Like that’s what you’re doing, right? 

Joe Barhoum 

You’re telling a story now, of course, I’m not a recipient of your videos, necessarily. 

Joe Barhoum 

Or actually not a prospect, but I’ve seen some of your videos in a previous collaboration that we had, and I think you’re doing a great job of putting yourself in a position where you have. 

Joe Barhoum 

Tell a story and that’s that. 

Joe Barhoum 

They provide the best way to learn, right? 

Joe Barhoum 

It’s just throw yourself out there, specially since you have the desire and like like I did I wanted to get into sales so they want to make that money and want to buy that house and be on my own. 

Joe Barhoum 

You set a target and now you’re trying to get there. 

Joe Barhoum 

And as you mentioned before, the wind might take you in different directions, but you know the land you’re trying to get to as you sail towards it so. 

Joe Barhoum 

I mean, just keep going, you’re gonna solve this and all of us will be better for it because we’re going to follow your in your footsteps. 

Michael Brown 

Well, thank you. 

Michael Brown 

I think I would advocate for anybody out there that’s like Oh my gosh like I am not going to shoot a video. 

Michael Brown 

I’m not putting my face on that screen. 

Michael Brown 

It’s nerve wracking for people. 

Michael Brown 

So I would just say get comfortable getting uncomfortable. 

Michael Brown 

Yep, and that’s in all aspects of life, so I think for me it’s like I’m personally not pushing myself that I know I’m not professionally pushing myself and then I’m not financially pushing myself and so I always want to be like. 

Michael Brown 

Just just a little bit outside of my comfort zone. 

Michael Brown 

I’m not saying you have to make these huge leaps, but shoot one video. 

Michael Brown 

Pick a theme. 

Michael Brown 

Maybe and shoot that one video and send it to your body and have him watch it and say, hey, here’s my feedback. 

Michael Brown 

Here’s how I receive that. 

Michael Brown 

And then you could pick that theme and shoot 10 videos that are accustomed to that person. 

Michael Brown 

But on the same theme, and so it’s no different than being in the gym. 

Michael Brown 

And you see the guys with small legs of the gals, small legs, we’ve got the big body. 

Great. 

Michael Brown 

Your biggest opportunity is your legs, so it’s like if you want to go and get more fit or you want to get bigger. 

Michael Brown 

It’s like focus on the area that you typically don’t like, like to work on and a lot of people that is getting personal and that is telling stories and giving videos and whatnot so. 

Michael Brown 

I think that’s really important is always be uncomfortable in sales and we get that naturally because no one likes to make calls right? 

Michael Brown 

You’re effectively like calling this person that you’ve never met and trying to earn their trust in five seconds. 

Michael Brown 

That’s an uncomfortable feeling for anybody, no matter how long you’ve been in sales. 

Michael Brown 

Dang, I’ll tell you what. 

Michael Brown 

I still don’t love doing it, and that’s why I’ve always said. 

Michael Brown 

I’m not really a sales guy, but but I’m willing to get outside my comfort zone. 

Michael Brown 

Put in that effort, and I think that’s where the growth happens and video has been one of those big pieces for me over the last six months. 

Michael Brown 

I was not comfortable in the video as well, but Joe, you’ve seen my LinkedIn. 

Michael Brown 

I’ve shot a ton of videos crashing, so and I’m. 

Joe Barhoum 

Like consistently do that until the next thing comes along. 

Joe Barhoum 

That may be better, so I’m going to do it too, like I’m making this commitment to you right now. 

Joe Barhoum 

Yeah, and. 

Joe Barhoum 

Joe Barhoum 

You said you’re doing about 10 a day or that was your recommendation 5 to 7 minutes to prep and get him filmed. 

Joe Barhoum 

I’m doing it. 

Joe Barhoum 

I shoot video all the time. 

Joe Barhoum 

I just don’t do it in that way. 

Joe Barhoum 

I’ve got a YouTube channel or review tech every week. 

Joe Barhoum 

I’ve got a 5 to 10 minute video that comes out so I’m already doing it. 

Joe Barhoum 

I just haven’t oriented that side of my hobby towards ’cause my hobby is the consumer tech. 

Joe Barhoum 

I haven’t thought about it in the context of sales, so I’m making a commitment to you right now that I’m going to do it. 

Joe Barhoum 

And I’m gonna start today. 

Joe Barhoum 

I’m gonna start filming and sending today and already started thinking about exactly how I’m going to insert into my process. 

Joe Barhoum 

So maybe offline. 

Joe Barhoum 

I’ll tell you about that. 

Michael Brown 

So. 

Well. 

Joe Barhoum 

So something else I think is really valuable in this age of video is to demonstrate your interest. 

Joe Barhoum 

So I saw over your shoulder that you have a guitar minds over here as well, and I’m terrible at guitar, but still. 

Yeah. 

Michael Brown 

Do you feel? 

Joe Barhoum 

It’s fun I. 

Joe Barhoum 

Like to play it if no one’s home, I’ll play. 

Joe Barhoum 

But I also like to display my interests, and I’ve brought this up many times in my shows. 

Joe Barhoum 

I used to be really concerned that someone I’m trying to do business with would know that I’m into video games or GI Joe or something like that, and then they wouldn’t want to talk to me ’cause they would automatically like just down rank me as a mature individual and I’m over it. 

Joe Barhoum 

I’m completely over it, it forget it like this is who I am and there’s someone we both know who we haven’t had this conversation yet. 

Joe Barhoum 

Then we both know that I was in a meeting with him and I just met him before I knew that. 

Joe Barhoum 

Anyone and he saw my Game Boy and then he texted me is like is that a Game Boy like a real Game Boy and then we had this whole conversation and now we’re texting almost every other day about personal stuff, kids family stuff and then of course occasionally we talk about business and I’m pretty confident we’ll do business together at some point when it’s. 

Joe Barhoum 

Right, ’cause it’s a good fit, but. 

Joe Barhoum 

Over and above the fact that it’s a good business decision, we have a great relation. 

Joe Barhoum 

We ship and that’s what we’re all. 

Joe Barhoum 

I think ultimately trying to do with being more personal, telling stories, being specific. 

Joe Barhoum 

It’s because we want we want to have relationships and we’re seeking relationships and gain that feedback. 

Joe Barhoum 

Whether it’s immediately off a LinkedIn post or down the road. 

Joe Barhoum 

When you start a sales cycle, knowing that, hey, I sought to help you and I really did help you. 

Joe Barhoum 

That’s awesome. 

Joe Barhoum 

Now go tell everybody else that I helped you, yeah. 

Joe Barhoum 

Yeah. 

Joe Barhoum 

Michael Brown 

Yeah, exactly what? 

Michael Brown 

What games in your Game Boy? 

Michael Brown 

That’s the first thing after now. 

Joe Barhoum 

Oh, right now it’s links awakening, yeah. 

Michael Brown 

OK, now that they had originally. 

Michael Brown 

Exactly. 

Michael Brown 

Joe Barhoum 

They remade it Nintendo remade it for the Switch last year, year before and So what I did is when it was announced I popped it back in an I replayed it. 

Michael Brown 

OK. 

Joe Barhoum 

I didn’t finish it but I replayed it and then I replied on the switch ’cause it’s been so long since I played it as a kid so. 

Joe Barhoum 

Yeah, it’s it’s mostly out there for nostalgia. 

Joe Barhoum 

There’s no batteries in it right now, ’cause I don’t want the batteries to leak inside of it, but this story. 

Joe Barhoum 

Behind this is that when I was a little kid, I really wanted a gameboy and I convinced my mom we have a lot of money and finally convinced my mom and she bought me one out there like 80 bucks or something like that. 

Joe Barhoum 

And then you know, they’re grey grayscale dot matrix displays not color. 

Joe Barhoum 

Well at the same time Sega released the Game Gear, which was color. 

Joe Barhoum 

And you know, hey back then, man, like the little bit of distinction. 

Joe Barhoum 

Was important to us and as nerds, an my brother who is older me that you know, I always looked up to. 

Joe Barhoum 

He’s like you should have gotten Game Gear. 

Joe Barhoum 

This is stupid. 

Joe Barhoum 

Why would you have this? 

Joe Barhoum 

When you get the color one? 

Joe Barhoum 

And so I was like, alright? 

Joe Barhoum 

So I returned it and I got the game gear and I always regretted it. 

Joe Barhoum 

Especially since my mom bought it for me. 

Joe Barhoum 

So when I finally had, you know, some money and they’re hard to find in a good working condition. 

Joe Barhoum 

I went out and bought one. 

Joe Barhoum 

So now I keep it up here because on occasion I’ll pull it down and play. 

Joe Barhoum 

But also I want people to see that this is something that’s near and dear to my heart. 

Joe Barhoum 

And actually, it’s a representation of the relationship I have with my mom. 

Joe Barhoum 

The fact that she bought this for me and then I kind of betrayed that and one in a different direction. 

Joe Barhoum 

But you know, later on when I acquired it, you can never replace your mom, you know. 

Joe Barhoum 

And so now that you should keep everything your mom gives you, right? 

Joe Barhoum 

But this is something that was super important to me as a kid, and you know, I I can’t look at this and not think about her, so that’s part of the reason I keep it up. 

Joe Barhoum 

’cause even though it’s behind me, I can see it, you know. 

Michael Brown 

Yeah, I feel like what you’re doing right now is like a perfect conduit, no pun intended for exactly what we’re talking about, which is like telling stories, being relatable. 

Michael Brown 

I mean how many people are you talking to in your business right now that can relate to that? 

Michael Brown 

Maybe grew up with a gameboy or they have the motorcycle that they you know that their dad bottom when they were a kid or teen or something like that. 

Michael Brown 

Definitely makes you relatable. 

Michael Brown 

So I love that you have that set up in the background. 

Michael Brown 

I think I would typically be more set up. 

Michael Brown 

I just moved like 2 weeks ago. 

Joe Barhoum 

Right? 

Michael Brown 

Be a little. 

Michael Brown 

Leniency right now, but you know, I think for me, one of the important things was having this office was really and another thing that I advocate for is just taking breaks. 

Michael Brown 

You know, we’ve really glamorized overworking, especially in the sales profession right now. 

Michael Brown 

It’s like you have to go all the time. 

Michael Brown 

You need to be closing deals all that. 

Michael Brown 

Time, and that’s just not the reality. 

Michael Brown 

So if you set that expectation for yourself that you’re going to be closing deals all the time, every single day, you’re just setting yourself up for some heartache, right? 

Michael Brown 

And so I think taking breaks and that’s I set my office that way, so I have my guitar. 

Michael Brown 

I also have a little drum set back here, so I thought I’d share that too, and so sometimes I’ll just. 

Joe Barhoum 

Oh sweet. 

Michael Brown 

Take a break and I’ll sit down and play some music and take 5 minutes and kind of clear the mind a little bit. 

Michael Brown 

But I love yourself because it makes you relatable. 

Michael Brown 

And I also think that not just having it visually but also you become a better salesperson. 

Michael Brown 

The more well rounded you become. 

Michael Brown 

So any opportunities that you have to learn about something that is interesting to you that may be interesting to others is also important. 

Michael Brown 

I’ll say that in this, this is by no means supposed to be Tooting my own horn. 

Michael Brown 

But it audigy I had this nickname of the most interesting man at audigy. 

Michael Brown 

Just because I. 

Michael Brown 

Dipped my toe in a lot of different areas and so I have a really strange resume. 

Michael Brown 

Play with I have like a level one Psalm, so I studied some wine, but I mean I didn’t go very far. 

Michael Brown 

I just went far enough to be knowledgeable and I have a. 

Michael Brown 

I’m a licensed massage therapist and like so all these little things that people are not published authors, so I don’t really put him out there that often, but I do make those relations and sales. 

Michael Brown 

So if I’m reaching out to somebody to marketing firm I might tap into yeah like back in my day I. 

Michael Brown 

I did this little thing you know, with this publishing and blah blah blah and that will relate to that person or. 

Michael Brown 

A lot of people are in the wine and so I can make a lot of relations based off of that. Like hey, I hope your weekend went really well. I had this really great bottle like 06 cab this weekend and the reason I would say that is ’cause I went out to their profile on their website and they said hey loves to drink wine right? And those are those little details again where it’s like that’s going to catch their attention. It’s going to show that you did your research. 

Michael Brown 

And it’s just using that intuition to say what is going to resonate with this person. 

Michael Brown 

So all of this makes you relatable, and this makes you human. 

Michael Brown 

So not just having your circle picture on your email signature, but this is part of it. 

Michael Brown 

And all of that stuff works together and makes you a cohesive unit. 

Michael Brown 

Inhuman 

Joe Barhoum 

Yeah, I totally agree with that. 

Joe Barhoum 

And I mean just. 

Joe Barhoum 

Honestly it’s part of the reason I’m doing it is I want people to be who I am because it doesn’t always come across, you know, and sometimes it’s hard to build rapport with people in that first call. 

Joe Barhoum 

It could be super hard and we’re now as sales. 

There. 

Joe Barhoum 

People were mostly forcing the zoom interactions. 

Joe Barhoum 

So or video interaction. 

Joe Barhoum 

So it’s helpful to give people something to ask you about. 

Joe Barhoum 

If they don’t give you something to ask. 

Joe Barhoum 

About you know it’s it’s a good thing. 

Joe Barhoum 

To do it’s. 

Michael Brown 

Yeah, yeah. 

Joe Barhoum 

A good tip. 

Joe Barhoum 

Well hey awesome awesome chatting with you Michael. 

Joe Barhoum 

How can people reach you if they’re inspired by the things that you’re doing? 

Michael Brown 

You guys can definitely. I’m I’m again very personal so you can email me. My email is michae[email protected] so ALLERCARE. You can also call or text me 3609802076 I have no issues giving out my cell phone number. 

Michael Brown 

I would love to have this conversation with anybody ’cause as we sit here and have this conversation, we’re both learning from each other and I always have opportunity to learn by no means am I an expert, anything every day I become a novice once again and so I’m happy to learn from anybody else. 

Joe Barhoum 

Awesome, thank you Michael. 

Joe Barhoum 

Do it again soon. 

Michael Brown 

Cool, thanks so much, Joe great to talk to you. 

Joe Barhoum 

Always.